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communion, ELCA, Episcopal, Episcopal Church, LCMS, Lutheran, Lutheran Church, WELS
After all the LCMS-ELCA-WELS talk last week, I attended an ELCA Lutheran church on Sunday.
To be honest, I didn’t really expect much of a difference in this church. Despite all the discussion in the comments, I pretty much assumed the services would be pretty much the same.
While the services themselves were similar, the atmosphere was completely different.
I got to the church a few minutes early – early enough to snap a picture without anyone noticing. I noticed the only books in the back of the pew were a hymnal and Bible. So I looked through the papers I was handed as I walked in and found a booklet called Holy Communion Creation Setting: Pew Edition. And I have to admit, that little booklet was much easier to handle!
Around the time the service was set to begin, the pastor stuck his head in the sanctuary and said “Peace be with you.” The congregation responded, and a woman stood and went through the announcements. The pastor then led the processional up the aisle (if it isn’t called that, let me know!) and the service officially began.
The order of the service was much like the LCMS, but a woman led the hymns. I still got a little lost in the service, flipping between the hymnal, booklet, and bulletin. (Easier than the books at LCMS, but still a juggle!) But the main difference between the two, at least in my opinion, was Communion.
Unlike in the LCMS church (at least the one I attended – apparently not all are closed) I was allowed to take Communion. On the front page of their bulletin, this ELCA church states “YOU ARE WELCOME…at the Lord’s Table. The Lord Jesus Christ invites all baptized Christians to the fellowship of his Table.” And to me, that said a lot about the church.
But being allowed to take Communion wasn’t the only difference. The logistics of Communion were very different as well. At this church, each row stands up and forms a line at the front of the church. Each person takes a glass (actual glass, not plastic) thimble and walks to the altar, where they kneel. The pastor and assistant pass out the bread and pour the wine from a common cup into the glass thimble. Each person takes the elements as they receive them, takes a moment to pray, and walks back to their seat. Grape juice is an option if you prefer, but I didn’t see anyone choose it. (To indicate that, you are supposed to place your hand over the thimble when the wine passes. I assume someone else would come with a cup of juice.)
The service concluded, and before I could gather my belongings people started coming up and introducing themselves. It took me a few minutes to make it out of the sanctuary, and I was brought to the guest book. I signed it and wrote my address, and was then (politely) asked to put my phone number down too. More people came up to talk, and the pastor stopped me as well. Since everyone was being so friendly and insisting I join them for coffee and donuts, I couldn’t really say no! I was introduced and questioned and served coffee by some of the nicest people. They all seemed really interested in my journey, and unlike some other churches/congregations, they seemed really supportive of it.
This ELCA church reminded me a lot of the Episcopal church I visited in January. Whether this was because the ELCA is more like the Episcopal church or because these two specific congregations were similar, I’m not sure. But I liked it!
Now, does that mean I think ELCA Lutherans are better than LCMS Lutherans? Absolutely not! Overall, the two seem pretty similar to me. I think I just happened upon a very friendly congregation of ELCA Lutherans…
I really love how you always make sure to point out that different congregations can have an influence in how the denomination is presented and lived out. Thanks!
Thanks for sharing your experience! Regarding communion logistics, I find that every congregation of every denomination has their own little system worked out. What you described sounds like what the church I grew up in does. And good catch on noticing similarities between the ELCA and the Episcopal church! The two churches have been in a “full communion” or close working relationship for over 10 years now, and the influence of each can be felt in both.
The biggest difference (imho) between the ELCA and the LCMS is something else you noticed, which is who is invited to communion. My supervising pastor announces before communion every week that “When Jesus sets the table, no one is left out”. The ELCA is not unique in its stance, but its noticed for it.
I’ve never heard of that style of taking Communion before! The ELCA church I attended did it by intinction–dipping the bread in a common cup of wine–and I never cared for it. There were two lines and everyone just filed along, take the bread, dip, cross, back down the aisle. It was like drive-by communion, sort of speedy and impersonal.
When people talk about Episcopal churches, I always think they sound like ELCA churches, too.
And when you say there was a woman leading the hymns, what do you mean exactly? Like standing up at the front starting everyone off? I’ve never been in either flavor of Lutheran church with someone doing that. Unless it’s a Praise Team type service with guitars and singers up front, the congregation just starts up with the organ. Interesting.
I’m glad you found such a friendly congregation! That obviously varies a lot from congregation to congregation, and everyone wants to think of their own church as a friendly one, but I’ll admit that I am not myself one of the friendly people you would meet at our church. I’m not good at talking to strangers. Or non-strangers. Or anyone. I duck out a side entrance because even standing in line for the pastoral greeting (and hug, at my current church) is too much for me. I’m *trying* to be better about greeting visitors, but it certainly doesn’t come naturally to me!
Also I wonder what they mean by “Creation Setting.” Hmm. And I agree that when I’ve visited churches with a booklet and bulletin to juggle as well as the hymnal, that’s much more complicated than just the bulletin and hymnal, which is what all the churches I’ve attended long-term use.
In other news, my childhood church in Albuquerque was struck by lightning last night and part of the roof blew off! This has nothing to do with your post, sorry. I was just looking at your picture and thinking about church architecture–that’s a fun topic in itself!
Katie,
I’m sorry to hear about your childhood church.
I find intinction problematic. It is truly less sanitary than sipping from a common cup. the germs that can be passed from whatever a person has touched to the host in to the cup are scary, but people think it’s cleaner than sharing a common cup as has been done for centuries. There was a CDC report done on this in the 90s. I think it came about because people were affraid of contracting AIDS from the common cup.
There are some interesting things here. As have been noted in a couple of places the ELCA and the Episcopal church have shared in full communion for quite some time now. one of the things I find most interesting in this is that the liturgy for the Prayer Book was greatly influenced by and modeled after Lutheran liturgy. Many of the early advisors of both Henry and Elizabeth were in fact Lutheran, or crypto-Lutheran.
I find this interesting because as Anglicans stress Lex Orandi Lex Credendi, or” as we pray so we believe.” They do not have confessions as the Lutherans do in the Book of Concord, so the liturgy, in many ways, takes the place of the confessions. This preserves a catholic liturgy in the Anglican church.
The Creatin Setting is an innovation in the new ELCA hymnal, and one of the reasons I no longer attend a Lutheran church. There are nearly ten settings in the “cranberry” book, as it’s called. (Why cranberry which is not even a liturgical colour I don’t know. I think scarlet may be more appropriate if they don’t want to use red.)
The Creation setting of the liturgy was written by Marty Haugen who has taken a long journey through many denominations writing liturgys for them all. He is now Roman. I find his settings to be overly sentimental and the texts which he uses can be close to heretical at times. I’m not a fan, but the trend in the ELCA right now is moving away from a traditional liturgy and traditional language to be more “inclusive.”
I don’t think it’s actually “Cranberry”, I think it’s more a joke since the “Red Book” is still remembered by some of the elderly Lutherans, and calling anything else the “Red Book” is blasphemous
. Plus, many denominations use books that are not in any liturgical color.
I’ve never heard it called the Creation Setting, but looking through the credits I think Setting Two is the one you are talking about (the only one credited to Haugen). While not my favorite, and I’m not sure I’ve ever sung the whole thing, the only difference between it and the other settings is the music–the texts are the same. I’m curious why this music is one of the reasons you don’t attend a Lutheran church anymore (or maybe I’m reading that wrong).
There was definitely some updating of language in ELW, but nothing too drastic that I can think of–in fact, most of the liturgical translations in ELW are 20 years old and are not new at all. Sometimes, I agree, the inclusive language can be quite awkward, and I wish we could find a better way of handling that. But there is no question for me that the liturgy is still traditional in form and function. Some of the words are different, but we still follow the same pattern we always have.
I think you are right about the Episcopal Church, though. Yes, we Lutherans fight over our new hymnals, but not for very long. In the Episcopal Church, though, the Book of Common Prayer is sacred and cannot be deviated from by the priest. Roman Catholics have the Magisterium, Lutherans have the Book of Concord, but Episcopalians have the BoCP
The bishop of the Metro New York Synod (Synod, in this case, means reigon.) was one of the driving forces in the creation of the new hymnal, and he calls it the cranberry book. I certainly understand that the red book is the old book from before the LBW, or green book, but I’d call the new one scarlet as that is a liturgical colour and related to but not red. The hymnals from other denominations that are in colours other than liturgical coulous; are they liturgical denominations?
The discussion of colours aside, my leaving the Lutheran church was not over music, although I do feel that the new settings are overly popy and sentimental, especially the Marty Haugen. It has more to do with the ruberics and texts that are used. There were quite a few changes made that actually chang meaning and doctorine. There really is something to Lex Orandi Lex Credendi. I don’t want to take up too much space here so here’s a link to another blog that outlines wuite well what te problems with the new ELCA hymnal are: http://www.lutheranforum.org/extras/reforming-the-daily-office-examining-two-new-lutheran-books/
Some personal background:
I am a cradle Lutheran worshiping in an Anglo Catholic church. I attend this church with my partner who is going through the process of discernment to become an Episcopal priest. We used to alternate between Lutheran and Anglican church every other week, but when I started hearing more traditionally Lutherna hymns and doctorine in Anglican church and the new hymnak solidified the changes I’d suspected. We started going to Anglican church full time with the exception of Reformation day (I still want to celebrate my tribal feast.) and Christmas.
Curious. I’m %^ years old. I’m at the age where I’m expected to be wizened. We always used the thimbles–even in the precursor LCA.
But you took an empty one up to the altar and had it filled up? We had the little thimbles in a tray and you took one as you knelt at the altar rail (or there was the option of the common cup), but it was already filled. It’s the taking an empty cup and filling it up that I had never heard of before.
But then, I also never knew some denominations/congregations leave you seated and just pass communion down the aisle, either. Clearly I am young and naive.
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Sounds pretty similiar to the congregation I grew up in. Some things I’d like to point out from all the posts about the differences in the church. Communion (who can participate in the holy sacrement, how we interpret the bread and wine), scripture and the Gospels of Christ, controversial social issues, and the differences within the E.L.C.A itself.
The congregation you visited seems pretty common among most ELCA services. Maybe a little conservative like my congreation meaning the service followed a structured Liturgy, Did two readings from scripture followed by aGospel reading conducted by the pastor, Sermon, you did confession, said the Lords prayer along with either the Apostles creed or the Nicene creed, prayed for the church political leaders the community ect…, and then did Holy Communion as Christ commanded us to do often all in a structured manor. Other more liberal congregation don’t take communion as often and never realy follow a Liturgy. They go with a more modern aproach and use guitars and drums to sing Christian rock songs.
Holy Communion is one of the most important activities we participate in as Lutheran Christians. I do want to point out that we do believe that a literal presence of Christ within the bread (body) and wine (blood) is there when the Eucharist is performed. So despite the LCMS and WELS saying we think Communion is just a symbolic act we do not. I am proud to say we welcome all who believe to join with us in the Holy sacrement because not only did Christ welcome all to the table but there are numerous scriptures that show Christ welcoming gentiles, sinners, and tax collectors to join in fellowship. How are we to spread the good news to the world if we dont invite everyone in?
Now I’m not 100% on this but I believe the ELCA teaches that scripture is interpreted by the presence of the Holy Spirit. We don’t claim that our way is the only way and do acknowledge Christ’s Gospels are devine scriptures to live by. I never remember being tought that there was error in scripture during my mutiple years of Catechism. We were educated on all the books Old Testament and New and we do believe the scripture in Genesis despite the written inaccurate assumptions. And we ABSOLUTLY do believe that Christ died for the forgiveness of our sins. I don’t even know where that assumption came from :-/?
The church does take a stance on some very big controversial issues such as female church leaders, Gay rights and marriage, interfaith marriages and raising children, abortion, the support of Isreal and acceptance of Jewish culture, as well as immigration. The list goes on. I remember when the church voted on whether or not we would allow gay marriage to be officiated by church leaders. The ELCA voted they would accept homosexual couples as well as gay pastors. Our congregation as well as every other church through out the ELCA individually voted whether or not we believed this was scripturally correct and if we will continue to be apart of our Synod and the ELCA or if we would break apart from the church. We voted that we would accept homosexuals into our congregation but we voted agaisnt the acceptence of doctrine and affirmed that we don’t believe its acceptable within the peramiters of God’s word. We continued our membership with the Church. Most of us believe immigration is acceptable for all those seeking freedom. Warfare is something we believe is an absolute last resort and must be carried out in a humane way we constantly pray for an end to conflict. We pray for the preservation of the Holy land and the Jewish people. It’s ok to marry outside the faith as long as extra premarital counseling occurs and the children are raised knowing Christ’s teachings. In my church, we were taught abortion is the deprivation of a life created by God. We attempt to abstain from most political matters because the law of God is more powerful than government. As for the education of any of these matters, my church strictly stuck to the education of the Gospels. Many of these issues have been explained to me when I’ve approached my Pastor for answers.
All in all, yes each church has their way of conducting services and an accepted doctrine of beliefs that differ from one kind of Lutheran to another. But we are all brothers and sisters of Christ that have been given the gift of salvation through his sacrifice. As long as we continue to have faith in Christ we are all one in the same.
Mark 9:38-50 states, “For whoever is not against us is for us”.
My ELCA congregation is more conservative than your ELCA congregation. We still use the Green Book.